Legislature(2005 - 2006)SENATE FINANCE 532

01/12/2006 09:00 AM Senate FINANCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
= SB 70 CRIMES INVOLVING CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES
Heard & Held
= SB 74 CRIMES INVOLVING MARIJUANA/OTHER DRUGS
Heard & Held
= HB 149 CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES
Moved SCS CSHB 149(FIN) Out of Committee
                                                                                                                                
     CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 74(JUD)                                                                                             
     "An Act making findings relating to marijuana use and                                                                      
     possession; relating to marijuana and misconduct involving a                                                               
     controlled substance; and providing for an effective date."                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This was  the second  hearing for  this bill in  the Senate  Finance                                                            
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green stated  that  public  testimony pertaining  to  this                                                            
issue would be provided.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:06:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. LESTER  GRINSPOON,  Emeritus  Professor of  Psychiatry,  Harvard                                                            
University  testified via  teleconference  from an  offnet site.  He                                                            
informed the  Committee that he has  studied marijuana for  40 years                                                            
and is the  author of numerous books  and other publications  on the                                                            
subject.  He  declined  to  testify,  stating   that  the  15-minute                                                            
timeframe being afforded  for his testimony would be an insufficient                                                            
amount  of time  in  which to  adequately  address the  18  separate                                                            
Findings  presented  in  Sec. 2  of  the bill.  Each  finding  would                                                            
individually   "demand"  a   minimum  of   15-minutes  of   "careful                                                            
discussion since  they are so off-target from a scientific  point of                                                            
view that they  have to be carefully  discussed; together  they seem                                                            
to comprise  a kind of  modern day reefer  madness." He opined  that                                                            
the limited  timeframe  being provided  to this  legislation was  an                                                            
indication  that   the  Committee  had  "no  interest   in  what  we                                                            
[testifiers]  have  to say"  and  that the  Committee  had  "already                                                            
prejudged this,  because the nature  of your Findings are  so absurd                                                            
that if you're really serious  about those Findings" sufficient time                                                            
would have been allotted for discussion.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
In response to  a comment from Co-Chair Green, Dr.  Grinspoon stated                                                            
that it was  not that he has chosen  not to testify, it was  that he                                                            
"can't testify";  he could  "barely introduce  himself" in  the time                                                            
allotted  and,  as a  result,  the  Committee  would be  denied  the                                                            
"benefit" from  his remarks. He wished "the citizens  of Alaska good                                                            
luck; I hope they're not burdened with this bill the way it is."                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR. EARLYWINE,  Professor, New York State University,  testified via                                                            
teleconference  from an offnet  site. His  credentials included  the                                                            
authoring  of a  book  titled "Understanding  Marijuana"  which  was                                                            
based on his review of approximately 500 marijuana studies.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:11:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr.  Earlywine  characterized  the  history of  marijuana  as  being                                                            
"extensive," with cannabis  use being documented as early as 8000 BC                                                            
and its medical use documented  as early as 2800 BC. While no lethal                                                            
dose of marijuana  has been established to date, research  estimates                                                            
that  an individual  would be  required to  smoke a  minimum of  two                                                            
pounds of marijuana in that regard.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  shared that one of the concerns that  has been raised                                                            
during his  presentations on marijuana  is "the notion that  today's                                                            
marijuana has  an increase in potency" when compared  to its potency                                                            
in the 1970s.  While it is "true that marijuana today  is probably a                                                            
little stronger  than it was back in the 1970s … the  increase is no                                                            
where near as  big as what some of us have been led  to believe" via                                                            
"certain  alarmist media  reports".  Rather than  today's  estimates                                                            
being "awry, it's  that the estimates" conducted in  the 1970s "were                                                            
inaccurate." It  was unknown at that time, how tetrahydrocannabinol                                                             
(THC), which is the active  chemical ingredient in marijuana, "broke                                                            
down." Therefore,  the one  percent THC reading  estimates  that are                                                            
considered "typical  of that era" were based on marijuana  "that had                                                            
been thrown in  pot police evidence lockers and allowed  to degrade"                                                            
before being sent for laboratory analyses.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  informed that, in a laboratory setting,  a person who                                                            
smoked  marijuana   with  a  one-percent  THC  level   might  simply                                                            
experience  a headache  and  thus  think they  had been  provided  a                                                            
placebo. Marijuana "is  not psychoactive at that level"; it could be                                                            
compared to the  "THC levels in hemp and things used  for clothing…"                                                            
The consensus  could be  that the 1970s  studies underestimated  the                                                            
THC strength.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:14:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  continued that while one might hear  reports today of                                                            
marijuana  with THC levels  ranging between  15 and 20 percent,  the                                                            
average would  be in the four to six percent range.  He shared that,                                                            
in the 1970s, an independent  laboratory that did not rely on police                                                            
marijuana evidence, had  reported average THC readings in the two to                                                            
four  percent range.  Thus  "a doubling"  of the  THC concentration                                                             
might be the  appropriate manner in  which to consider the  strength                                                            
of the increase.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Dr.  Earlywine  stated  that,  "underlying  all this  is  the  tacit                                                            
assumption  that … stronger  marijuana is  somehow more dangerous."                                                             
While,  "it's  true  that stronger  proof"  alcohol  might  lead  to                                                            
"problems  more  readily",  that is  not  the case  with  marijuana.                                                            
Laboratory research indicates  that when people smoke marijuana with                                                            
higher THC  content, "they subconsciously  take shorter and  smaller                                                            
puffs"  in an  effort to  control their  level of  intoxication.  In                                                            
addition, "the  impact of any inhaled smoked drug  is very rapid" so                                                            
that an individual  could determine  "what the dose is within  a few                                                            
seconds  rather than  the case  with alcohol"  consumption where  it                                                            
might  take  more  than half  an  hour  to  experience  the  effect.                                                            
Numerous  factors such  as the "state  of your  stomach" would  come                                                            
into play  with alcohol.  "This idea that  more potent marijuana  is                                                            
necessarily more  dangerous is also worth questioning."  Some people                                                            
would argue  "that more potent  marijuana has  a kind of  protective                                                            
effect because  it would lead to smoking  less in total".  Therefore                                                            
there would be less lung exposure to carcinogens.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:16:59 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken understood  therefore that  contrary to the  ten to                                                            
14-percent THC  potency range reflected in Sec. 2(1)  page two lines                                                            
eight through  18 of the  bill, Dr. Earlywine's  testimony  would be                                                            
that  today's marijuana  THC content  would  be in the  four to  six                                                            
percent range. To that  point, he asked whether different regions of                                                            
the country might produce higher potency levels than another.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:17:52 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr.  Earlywine responded  that  there  is "an  incredible  variation                                                            
across different  strains and like  any other plant, it responds  to                                                            
good care  and light" and  other factors.  While there is  marijuana                                                            
with 14  percent THC  levels, it  is "extremely  rare". Most  of the                                                            
samples he  has reviewed range between  two and five percent.  Other                                                            
researchers' support a four to six percent THC range.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken pointed  out that  language in  Sec. 2(1) page  two                                                            
lines 13 and  14 states that, during  the period from 1997  to 2004,                                                            
the THC level of Alaska marijuana ranged from ten to 14 percent.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:19:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  next addressed the respiratory effects  of marijuana.                                                            
"Lungs are  designed to breath fresh  clean air and anything  that's                                                            
inhaled  into  them"  could  cause  potential  problems.  The  media                                                            
portrays marijuana  as being four  or eight times more carcinogenic                                                             
than cigarettes.  However,  there  is insufficient  data to  support                                                            
such claims.  A California study found  that while those  who solely                                                            
smoked marijuana  "didn't have any  real differences in their  rates                                                            
of lung cancer",  they did portray "an increase in  some respiratory                                                            
problems"  such  as  coughing  and  bronchitis.  However,  their  36                                                            
percent rate  of these problems  was only  slightly higher  than the                                                            
33-percent  rate of those  who did not smoke  anything at all.  Even                                                            
though the increase  is minor, efforts to reduce respiratory  issues                                                            
are being furthered.  To this point,  new technology "for  consuming                                                            
cannabis" has  been developed to prevent respiratory  problems. This                                                            
device,  referred to  as a "Vaporizer",  would  "capitalize" on  the                                                            
fact that marijuana could  be heated to a point at which it releases                                                            
THC  and  other  chemicals  in  mist  form,  without   igniting  the                                                            
marijuana;   thus  no  carcinogens,   which   are  the  sources   of                                                            
respiratory  problems, would  be released  into the air.  Therefore,                                                            
while the respiratory  issues associated  with cannabis are  nowhere                                                            
"near as  bad as cigarettes",  "the advent  of the vaporizer"  would                                                            
negate any respiratory issue relating to marijuana use.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:21:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  also  addressed  "the idea  of marijuana  as being  a                                                            
gateway  drug." It  is commonly  believed  that once  a person  uses                                                            
marijuana  they would be  "propelled downwards  towards a desire  to                                                            
use cocaine and heroin  and" other drugs. However, he has determined                                                            
that this  is not the case.  While there are  people who use  heroin                                                            
who say that they "used  marijuana first, the vast majority of folks                                                            
who  use marijuana  have  never even  seen  heroin or  hard  drugs".                                                            
Rather than there being  "a pharmacological connection between using                                                            
cannabis  and hard drugs",  the connection  is that  "they are  just                                                            
part of the same underground market."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  stated that another  California study indicates  that                                                            
certain personalities are  risk-takers: not only might they use hard                                                            
drugs, they  would also not wear their  seat belts, they  would have                                                            
unsafe  sex, and  they  would ride  in  the front  car  on a  roller                                                            
coaster. Such individuals  would tend to be the ones using a variety                                                            
of  different  drugs  and  doing  other  risky  things.   Therefore,                                                            
marijuana  usage would  not predetermine  that  the user  be on  "an                                                            
inevitable  quest towards  hard  drugs, it's  just that  there  is a                                                            
whole subset of folks who  happen to use marijuana first and then go                                                            
on to use hard drugs."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:23:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  understood therefore  that evidence would  indicate                                                            
that for the "vast  majority" of marijuana users,  the drug is not a                                                            
gateway. However,  marijuana use might  be a gateway for  a minority                                                            
of  the State's  population;  perhaps  more  so  in Rural  areas  as                                                            
evidenced  by the amount  of problems the  State is experiencing  in                                                            
those areas.  There might also be  a physiologically propensity  for                                                            
Native Alaskans in this regard as well.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:24:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine responded  that this would depend on the definition of                                                            
gateway. The  original studies used  the term "stepping stone";  the                                                            
idea being  that people  would use  marijuana prior  to using  other                                                            
drugs.  Over time,  the idea  has transitioned  to  the belief  that                                                            
marijuana  use "leads  to these  other drugs."  However, no  studies                                                            
would support  that position. It could  be that marijuana  users are                                                            
exposed to other drugs  due to the fact that the wares are available                                                            
in "the same underground market.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken acknowledged.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:24:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  next  addressed the  theory that  cannabis use  could                                                            
lead  to  aggression  by  voicing  surprise  that  this  theory  has                                                            
resurfaced as  laboratory research conducted 30 years  prior negated                                                            
the theory.  Research has been conducted  in which an aggressor  has                                                            
been "planted"  in the laboratory  setting  to test the response  of                                                            
the user when  aggressed upon, wronged, or subjected  to things such                                                            
as having their  hand placed in cold water. "Counter  to the affects                                                            
that we  get with  alcohol, marijuana  either has  no impact  on the                                                            
aggressive  response   or  in  one  study  actually  decreased   the                                                            
aggressive  response, relative to  the folks who smoked a  placebo."                                                            
It  should  be  pointed  out  that  there  could  be  "a  subset  of                                                            
aggressive"  personalities  who happen  to use  marijuana;  however,                                                            
research   would  support   "that   marijuana   does  not   increase                                                            
aggression, and  if anything it stays the same or  actually lowers."                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:26:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  thanked the testifier for providing  his expertise to                                                            
the Committee.  He asked whether an  individual's judgment  might be                                                            
impaired by marijuana.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  responded that the  studies that have been  conducted                                                            
have focused on  tasks that might not be relevant  to the key issues                                                            
being experienced  in Alaska.  Research  involving complex  reaction                                                            
time  tasks  such as  requiring  a  person under  the  influence  of                                                            
marijuana to  press, for instance,  the red light when it  lights up                                                            
or the green  button when it lights  up, have found that  a person's                                                            
reaction  is somewhat impaired.  However,  findings do not  indicate                                                            
that a person  would be willing "to  take more risks" or  "engage in                                                            
anything  potentially  dangerous".  One  study  found  the  opposite                                                            
affect.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  clarified that,  rather than  to the affect  on one's                                                            
coordination,  his question  was to whether  a person's judgment  of                                                            
right or  wrong might be  affected. He  recalled theories  attesting                                                            
that  marijuana use  inflated  egos  and changed  "cultural  norms".                                                            
There has been  testimony to the fact that some users  might be less                                                            
capable  of  making  judgments  about  what  would  be "appropriate                                                             
conduct and response".                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  communicated  that  a person intoxicated  on  alcohol                                                            
could "lose  some of  your connection  to your  idea of your  stated                                                            
morals".  In  other  words  "the  super  ego  is  alcohol  soluble".                                                            
Unfortunately  the  literature  on  marijuana  is  unclear  on  this                                                            
matter, as it is difficult  to study in a laboratory setting. People                                                            
in test studies  are not willing to make risky decisions  "even when                                                            
they are intoxicated".                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:28:30 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson understood  therefore  that a  person intoxicated  on                                                            
marijuana  might  not be  impaired  in  the matter  of  making  good                                                            
decisions on their own behalf.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:28:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine affirmed  that to be the result of laboratory testing.                                                            
However, he noted that  clinical researchers who work with marijuana                                                            
abusers  have stated  that  the abusers  have reported  doing  "some                                                            
silly  things"  when  they  were  "high".  To  that  point  however,                                                            
laboratory  testing  has  indicated  "that often  people  have  that                                                            
expectation  or they use it as an  excuse" for doing something  that                                                            
they  had  intended  to do  all  along.  "In truth,  the  impact  of                                                            
marijuana on tasks that  require … making the best decision has been                                                            
really minimal."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  asked regarding  the danger  of allowing a  marijuana                                                            
user to operate heavy equipment.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:29:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  stated that studies relating to driving  abilities of                                                            
those   under  the   influence   of   marijuana  have   been   "very                                                            
controversial".  He would  not recommend that  anyone should  "drive                                                            
after smoking marijuana".  The findings of three studies that tested                                                            
marijuana users  after they were involved in an accident  found that                                                            
results "were  comparable to folks  who hadn't smoked marijuana".  A                                                            
foreign  study in  which people  smoked  marijuana  in a  controlled                                                            
setting and  drove on the  streets of Amsterdam  in the Netherlands                                                             
reported some  small problems such  as staying in the center  of the                                                            
driving  lane, but  no impairment  of stopping  distance,  direction                                                            
following  abilities, or  turn signal  abilities.  It appeared  that                                                            
people  were  actually  compensating  in  that  they  increased  the                                                            
distance  between their car  and other cars,  were unlikely  to pass                                                            
other  cars, and  "they drove  more slowly  than the  folks who  had                                                            
smoked a placebo".  Therefore, the study found that  people who were                                                            
driving  under the influence  were actually  compensating for  their                                                            
condition.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson acknowledged.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:31:00 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Stedman  stated that  he would be  unwilling to work  around                                                            
someone who  was using marijuana or  drinking alcohol and  operating                                                            
heavy equipment or involved in other dangerous situations.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine agreed.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Stedman asked how  children and young adults are affected by                                                            
using  marijuana or  by living  in a  home "where  marijuana use  is                                                            
prevalent",  specifically  how  it  might  affect  their  short-term                                                            
memory and their ability to learn.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:31:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine noted that  he is currently studying this issue, as it                                                            
is the basis  for another book he  is writing. No one could  dispute                                                            
the idea that  marijuana is not for  children. School literature  on                                                            
this issue  is "complicated".  There are  claims that marijuana  use                                                            
would cause  young people  to lose their  motivation and that  teens                                                            
would  decide not  to continue  their schooling  or  would "do  very                                                            
poorly" in  school. Studies  have found that  "high school  students                                                            
who used  marijuana had lower  grades than  their peers who  did not                                                            
use". However,  it was found after reviewing those  students' grades                                                            
before they  began to use  marijuana, that  their grades "were  also                                                            
lower then".  Therefore,  rather than marijuana  use lowering  their                                                            
grades,  the thought  is that "students  who are  having trouble  in                                                            
school end  up using marijuana at  a younger age. Nevertheless",  as                                                            
medical  tests,  including  MRIs,  are developed,  "it  is  becoming                                                            
clearer and clearer that  marijuana is hard on the developing brain…                                                            
this is not something that teens should play with."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine continued  that literature regarding short-term memory                                                            
clearly indicates,  "that during intoxication, it  is extremely hard                                                            
to learn new  material". "Students  should not go to class  high" as                                                            
doing so  would impair  their ability to  "absorb" new information.                                                             
Nonetheless,  studies  indicate  that  when  adults  are  no  longer                                                            
intoxicated,  both their short-term  and long-term memories  seem to                                                            
be relatively  "unaffected"  by either  occasional  or frequent  use                                                            
over a couple of years.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Stedman stated  that while that is good to hear, there would                                                            
continue to be concern  about youth in high school who use marijuana                                                            
during those formative  years, as they would have "a substantial gap                                                            
in their education".                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  agreed. Nobody  could attend  high school and  absorb                                                            
all that they were being taught if they were high.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:34:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde, noting  that  there  is considerable  concern  about                                                            
exposing children to second  hand tobacco smoke, asked regarding the                                                            
affect of second hand marijuana smoke on children.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:35:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  stated that  no studies have  been conducted  in this                                                            
area. "The  issue is  an interesting  one in  part because  although                                                            
marijuana may  have more chemicals in it than tobacco  smoke, people                                                            
tend to smoke  markedly less marijuana  than they do tobacco."  Thus                                                            
the  issue might  be  "relatively  minor  in comparison".  The  more                                                            
prominent issue  might be the idea of smoking marijuana  in front of                                                            
teens or children. This would be "ill-advised".                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:36:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  addressed the  economic costs  of the prohibition  of                                                            
marijuana.   Research  indicates   that  absent  this  prohibition,                                                             
billions of  dollars could be saved  nationwide and law enforcement                                                             
efforts could be focused  on other important issues, such as the use                                                            
of hard drugs like methamphetamine.  Another recommendation would be                                                            
that law enforcement efforts  focus on youth rather than adult usage                                                            
as that has more serious consequences, developmentally.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  stated  that a big  social issue  is the evolving  of                                                            
marijuana  for medical  uses.  A number  of ailments  such as  AIDS-                                                            
related  wasting,  cancers,  spinal   cord  injuries,  and  migraine                                                            
headaches  respond  extremely well  to  marijuana.  Allowing use  of                                                            
medical  marijuana  for  such things  would  be  "a humane  way"  of                                                            
dealing with them.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green   noted  that  medical  marijuana   uses  have  been                                                            
discussed in Alaska for many years.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:38:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson,  a  medical  doctor,  asked  whether  some  research                                                            
findings  might  be outdated;  specifically  whether  Dr.  Earlywine                                                            
agreed with the "findings  that cannabis does not have any affect on                                                            
the exhibition of violence".                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:39:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr.  Earlywine replied  that  those  findings are  "consistent  with                                                            
laboratory  data.  There  is  a  subset  of folks  who  seem  to  be                                                            
aggressive  who also  seem to use  marijuana,  but actual  marijuana                                                            
intoxication doesn't increase aggression."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:39:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  asked whether those  finding would be maintained  "in                                                            
spite  of the  incidents  within  the criminal  community  that  has                                                            
pointed out or have stated  that they do become aggressive when they                                                            
do smoke marijuana."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Dr.  Earlywine  remarked that  upon  close  review, "most  of  those                                                            
antidotes"  end up  involving  marijuana combined  with  the use  of                                                            
alcohol. His own data would  support that the use of alcohol "is the                                                            
contributor to aggression."                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:39:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  revisited Dr.  Earlywine's  comments  regarding  the                                                            
carcinogens  associated with smoking  marijuana. A publication  by a                                                            
researcher  named Iverson  stated that rather  than the issue  being                                                            
THC, the level of tar in the product is of concern.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:40:12 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  agreed. The  aforementioned  Vaporizer would  address                                                            
that issue.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  noted that research  quoted in Iverson's publication                                                             
found that pre-malignant  lesions occurred when the skin of mice was                                                            
exposed to marijuana.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:40:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  characterized  that  study as  "an interesting  one".                                                            
However,  due  to the  fact  that "the  dosage  that the  mice  were                                                            
exposed to was so high  relative to what a normal human dosage would                                                            
be" that he was  hesitant to draw a conclusion from  those findings.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  voiced concern in regards to the impact  of marijuana                                                            
on pregnancy,  particularly in regards to Alaska Native  women. This                                                            
would not only affect "the  generation at hand" it would affect "the                                                            
next  generation".  In  his  clinical  setting  experience,  he  has                                                            
observed that  THC appears "to exacerbate  other mental illnesses".                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:41:38 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine recounted  that a 1990s study involving people who had                                                            
been diagnosed  with schizophrenia had determined  that those people                                                            
"should clearly  stay away  from marijuana",  as it tended  "to make                                                            
their subsequent  psychotic breaks  happen more readily."  The media                                                            
however  has  encouraged  the  theory  that  marijuana  could  cause                                                            
schizophrenia. "That's an exaggeration".                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:42:03 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green thanked Dr. Earlywine for his testimony.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Earlywine  voiced appreciation  for the opportunity to  speak to                                                            
the Committee  and encouraged  them  to contact  him were there  any                                                            
further questions.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green acknowledged.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM  TANDESKE,   Commissioner,  Department  of  Public   Safety,                                                            
remarked  that  his  approach  to  any  issue  is  one  of  focusing                                                            
primarily  on  whether  the  action being  taken  would  affect  the                                                            
Department's  "constituents in a positive  way and how do  we reduce                                                            
the incidents that come up in the public's safety arena."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tandeske  stated that  the Department  has  identified                                                            
some "core  missions for the Alaska  State Troopers" including  drug                                                            
and alcohol  issues,  rural public  safety services,  and  Statewide                                                            
criminal investigations.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:43:41 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tandeske  stated "drug  issues,  including  marijuana,                                                            
tend  to  reach  across   all  three  of  those  disciplines."   The                                                            
Department  must be  provided  the tools  necessary  to address  the                                                            
issues. Since  he has been involved in law enforcement  in the State                                                            
since 1973,  he is aware of numerous  Alaska State Court  decisions,                                                            
specifically  the Crocker  v. State decision  that served to  impede                                                            
law enforcement efforts  to obtain search warrants. "It was an issue                                                            
that did not need  resolution because the search warrant  process is                                                            
a check  and balance process  involving a  judicial officer  and law                                                            
enforcement where  information is vetted properly  prior to issuance                                                            
of a search warrant."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tandeske noted  that he had  reviewed search  warrants                                                            
obtained  by his drug  enforcement  staff in  regards to  "marijuana                                                            
grows".  While a significant  number  of those  involved very  small                                                            
amounts of  marijuana, 90-percent  of the 81 marijuana grows  search                                                            
warrants in  the Matanuska Valley  over a four-year period  involved                                                            
over a  pound of marijuana.  More than 92-percent  of them  involved                                                            
more than a quarter pound  of marijuana. The conclusion is that "the                                                            
process that was in place  prior to the Crocker decision was working                                                            
effectively   in  addressing   the  public's   expectation   of  the                                                            
Department".                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:45:32 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Tandeske continued  that the second issue of importance                                                            
in this  legislation "that  is long overdue"  is how the  Department                                                            
would "quantify"  or "weigh products"  without having "to  process a                                                            
marijuana grow" as a dealer  would. The proposed process would allow                                                            
the Department  to spend  more time conducting  law enforcement  and                                                            
intelligence  efforts  and  less time  on  the  "tedious  processing                                                            
issue".                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Tandeske  stated that this legislation  "would maintain                                                            
the checks  and balances  that are appropriate  and that the  public                                                            
expects."  It  would  also  allow  the  Department  to  conduct  its                                                            
activities in a manner expected by the public.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:46:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green shared that  a concern that has been expressed to her                                                            
is the retention  of the rights of  the recreational user  who might                                                            
have  a small  amount  of marijuana;  therefore  she  asked  whether                                                            
safeguards to address this  concern have been incorporated into this                                                            
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:46:53 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tandeske  responded "absolutely".  The  fact that  90-                                                            
percent of  the search warrants that  had been served in  the Mat-Su                                                            
Valley had  involved more than a pound  of marijuana would  indicate                                                            
that the efforts are focusing on commercial grows.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
9:47:27 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman,  recalling that 92-percent  of the search  warrants                                                            
involved at least  a quarter pound of marijuana, asked  the smallest                                                            
amount prosecuted relating to the remaining eight percent.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tandeske stated  that that  information would  require                                                            
research.  It was  his experience  that small  amounts of  marijuana                                                            
have not been  prosecuted. He deferred  to the Department  of Law to                                                            
address the parameters  for what would result in prosecution as well                                                            
as "how many convictions  for small amounts might have resulted from                                                            
plea agreements from larger amounts down to smaller amounts".                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson asked regarding  an earlier testifier's claim that the                                                            
THC content  of  marijuana thirty  year's  ago might  have been  one                                                            
percent,  as this is  contrary to  the Department  of Law's  message                                                            
that the  THC content  might range  from 14 to  20 percent.  To that                                                            
point,  he  asked whether  the  Commissioner  was  "disputing"  that                                                            
information due to shelf life and other factors.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tandeske  voiced  being unqualified  to  speak to  the                                                            
scientific aspects  of marijuana. However, he recalled  that when he                                                            
was  an  active  Alaska  State  Trooper,  "there  was  a  time  that                                                            
marijuana in  the Matanuska Valley  was marketed as the best  in the                                                            
world".                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson asked opponents'  position on the quantifying measures                                                            
being  proposed in  Sec. 6  of the  bill, specifically  whether  the                                                            
determination  that the  end product  would be one-sixth  of  a live                                                            
marijuana plant's weight "would be a credible number".                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:49:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tandeske, while reiterating  that science was  not his                                                            
field of  expertise, believed  that "imperial  data … would  support                                                            
that as being a reasonable way of quantifying a grow."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson acknowledged.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:50:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde noted  that "alcohol  has been a  problem" with  most                                                            
cultures for  thousands of years.  One of the most common  arguments                                                            
in defense  of not  limiting access  to marijuana  "is that  it's no                                                            
worse than  alcohol; it's not as bad  as alcohol". He requested  the                                                            
Department's  view  of  this;  in  other  words,  "why  bother  with                                                            
marijuana" when there are worse issues to address.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Tandeske  stated that in his 26-years  of experience as                                                            
a State Trooper, he has  seen the affects of both "drugs and alcohol                                                            
all  too  graphically.  It  is  hard  to  minimize   the  impact  of                                                            
marijuana":  its impact on  Rural Alaska,  its involvement  in motor                                                            
vehicle  accidents,  gun "shoot  outs" and  other  violence such  as                                                            
robberies  that goes  with the  drug trade.  One  of the  consistent                                                            
things accompanying  a marijuana  grow is  its being accompanied  by                                                            
weapons  and money.  There  could  also be  a crossover  into  other                                                            
drugs.  He  recounted that  in  a  recent case  involving  a  search                                                            
warrant  obtained  for  cocaine,  marijuana  for  sale  and  illegal                                                            
weapons and cash were found.  Such things usually accompany the drug                                                            
trade.  In  response  to an  earlier  testifier's  comments  that  a                                                            
marijuana  user  who  is  driving  might  overcompensate  for  their                                                            
condition, he  shared having arrested many people  driving under the                                                            
influence of alcohol  who also overcompensated for  their condition.                                                            
"There's a lot of parallels."                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  asked whether it would "be fair to  summarize" that a                                                            
marijuana user  might "tend to be non-violent" whereas  the producer                                                            
of marijuana would "tend to be violent".                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner    Tandeske   "hesitated    to   make   such    blanket                                                            
characterizations"  of users or producers of marijuana;  however, he                                                            
declared,  "there  is  violence  in  the drug  trade."  He  has  had                                                            
physical  confrontations   with  people   under  the  influence   of                                                            
marijuana as well as those  under the influence of alcohol and other                                                            
drugs.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:54:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson restated  the  question he  had asked  of a  previous                                                            
testifier in regards to  the effect that marijuana use might have on                                                            
a  person's judgment.  While  acknowledging  people's  opinion  that                                                            
marijuana users  are "more laid back and less aggressive",  he asked                                                            
whether they  could also  be considered as  being "more compliant";                                                             
specifically  whether  evidence  would indicate  that  marijuana  is                                                            
being used as "a vehicle to enhance … sexual seduction".                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Tandeske responded  that differentiating the cause of a                                                            
person's behavior is sometimes  difficult. In addition to marijuana,                                                            
alcohol  might have been  consumed. Ultimately,  the combination  of                                                            
factors  occurring  in Rural  Alaska  resulting  in such  things  as                                                            
accidental  deaths, suicides, and  violent crime must be  addressed.                                                            
This effort would be part of the solution.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:55:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  further clarified his question by asking  whether the                                                            
Commissioner  has  ever  encountered  sexual  assault,  albeit  non-                                                            
violent, caused  by a perpetrator  using marijuana "as a  kind of an                                                            
access drug".                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner  Tandeske responded  that due to  the fact that  he has                                                            
not recently worked  in the field, he could not specifically  recall                                                            
encountering such as situation.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
9:56:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Stedman shared  that when  he was  in high  school, he  and                                                            
other  students  characterized   the  government's  drug   education                                                            
findings as  being "almost comical  due to the inaccuracies".  While                                                            
not as blatant, the findings  of this legislation could be viewed as                                                            
being "tilted  over the line in that  direction." With exception  to                                                            
the  Findings,  he   was  more  comfortable  with  the  enforcement                                                             
components  that would assist the  Department of Public Safety  with                                                            
its mission of  providing public safety, obtaining  search warrants,                                                            
and dealing with those  possessing four or more ounces of marijuana.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:58:02 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Stedman  opined that the Legislature would  better serve the                                                            
public by concentrating  more "on  the intent and direction  of this                                                            
bill" than  on the Findings  section. While  the testimony  thus far                                                            
has focused on the affect  of marijuana on adults, he voiced concern                                                            
that  the State  would face  more problems  in the  future with  the                                                            
impact of the  drug on children. Schoolteachers  have told  him that                                                            
they  could smell  marijuana  on children's  clothes  in  elementary                                                            
school.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:59:14 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman commented  to the fact that the Department of Public                                                            
Safety  indicates  in its  fiscal  note  that  the passage  of  this                                                            
legislation would  have zero fiscal impact. While  that might be the                                                            
case,  in separate  testimony, the  Department  has testified  that,                                                            
"they  are  overworked".   It  could  be  assumed   that  the  added                                                            
responsibilities   that  would  be imposed   were  this legislation                                                             
adopted would result in  something else being moved to a position of                                                            
lesser priority.  Therefore, he asked  whether this was a  matter of                                                            
concern to the  Department, in light of the fact that  no additional                                                            
personnel were being requested.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:00:16 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner   Tandeske  responded   that  the  Department   is  not                                                            
concerned  as  this legislation  would  reinstitute  search  warrant                                                            
provisions  that  had been  in effect  two  years prior.  Thus,  the                                                            
probable  cause   provisions  dealing   with  search  warrants   for                                                            
marijuana  grows would  be less  cumbersome. Nothing  else would  be                                                            
negatively affected.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:01:11 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
WES MICHAEL MACLEOD-BALL,  American Civil Liberties Union, testified                                                            
via teleconference from  Anchorage and shared that, while it did not                                                            
work  out, efforts  had  been  exerted to  have  another  testifier,                                                            
Jeffrey  A. Miron,  Professor of  Economics at  Harvard University,                                                             
discuss  his  June 2005  study  titled  "Budgetary  Implications  of                                                            
Marijuana   Prohibition".  That  study's   findings  indicate   that                                                            
legalizing marijuana  would save the nation $7,700,000,000  annually                                                            
in  regards  to  government  spending  on  efforts  to  enforce  the                                                            
prohibition on  marijuana. Therefore, it could be  extrapolated that                                                            
criminalizing marijuana  in this State would incur expenses relating                                                            
to enforcing anything more  that zero marijuana possession issues as                                                            
opposed  to  its  sale  or  manufacturing.  A  table  in  the  study                                                            
indicates  that Alaska  "spends less  than the  national average  in                                                            
terms of marijuana  possession arrests,  but about in the  middle of                                                            
the  nation percentage  wise  in  terms of  sale  and manufacturing                                                             
enforcement  issues".  Changing the  marijuana  possession level  to                                                            
anything more than zero  would not necessarily change those figures.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:03:17 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Ball asked  the Committee to research other drug  reform studies                                                            
that  are available  on  the  Internet  including  Citizens  Against                                                            
Government  Waste's website at www.taxpayer.net\drugreform   and the                                                            
American Enterprise  Institute's website www.aei.org.  These studies                                                            
would be informative  in regards to  the fiscal impact of  marijuana                                                            
related legislation.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green ordered the bill SET ASIDE.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE 10:04:07 AM / 10:13:46 AM                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                

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